He’s managed the Allman Brothers Band since 1992. Before that he co-managed them from 1981 to 1984.
He promoted a show with them in 1970 at the college he was attending and was present at the March 1971 recording and the June 25, 1971 closing public shows at the Fillmore East.
He saw the group a dozen times with Duane Allman.
In fact, he’s been part of every show The Allman Brothers band has played since June 1990 with the exception of two shows he missed due to his father’s death.
Since 1974, he’s been involved full-time in artist management working with The Allman Brothers Band, Dickey Betts, Lou Reed, Dave Edmunds, Renaissance, Art of Noise, and Aerosmith to name just a few. For 13 years he worked for John Scher and the Capitol Theater in Passaic, New Jersey crew.
The man we are talking about is Mr. Bert Holman.
We talked to Bert Holman about The Allman Brothers, the new CD of the Allman Brothers recorded on January 17, 1971 at Syria Mosque in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania and his life in time in the music business.
Q – Bert, isn’t it rather sad for you to work on a project like “Syria Mosque”? You’re realizing that what once was will never be again.
A – Well, I don’t think it’s said. I came to that conclusion in 1971 when Duane died. I was an original fan of the band. I saw them play at Fillmore East. I saw the last public closing show. I saw the show they recorded for the Fillmore East album among other shows I’d seen of them. I was an early fan. I was a freshman in college. By my sophomore year Duane dies in a motorcycle accident. You think at that point as a fan you; you just think the band is over. Then you come to see they decided to go forward. I actually saw their Carnegie Hall show which I thought was the first show they did without Duane, they actually played C.W. Post the night before. But it was the first show they were doing and it was moving. You could see that they were going to continue on. The rest of the sound was still there and I’ve stayed a fan. As I always tell people I live the dream. I ran away and joined the circus and got to start working with them in the early 80s and got back with them in the 90s and I’ve been here ever since. I’m just sort of really proud to help them perpetuate their fame. Their legend by sharing these recordings for people who were not there in the early 70s, trading bootlegged cassettes who have haven’t heard some of these shows. And, some of the shows have never been out anywhere. They never leaked out. To be able to show the artistry and the creativity; everyone hears how the band played so many shows and the shows were always different, well, now you can hear for yourself how it developed and how they’re different. “Syria Mosque” is a January show. Fillmore is in March. It’s eight weeks away. You can see sort of the early portions of it. There is an American University show that we put out that’s in December which is a month before this show into you can hear the difference in the arrangements and how they continue to evolve and get more sophisticated and were just more complex and changed. It’s like a jazz band. It’s like listening to John Coltane. No two John Coltrane performances ever sound alike. He doesn’t play the same thing on any two shows. Yeah, the basic melody is the same, the framework. But, the solos aren’t, the fills aren’t. The turnarounds are different. One thing I saw working with the Allman Brothers at one point they started playing “Black Hearted Woman” live in it had gotten so complex that it was driving Gregg crazy actually. They said to him “You know Gregg, you’re right.” They went back and listened to the original recording. I remember Oteil going, Wow! That’s what the original thing sounds like? “He had never really listened to the original recording. He listened to “live” performance recordings. They sort of stripped it all back to the original arrangement, the original tempo. To then start letting it evolve again.
Q – Did you ever get to talk to Duane Allman?
A — I actually met him a couple of times. It was very casual. I wasn’t working for them. I was working at the shows. I took him and Red Dog to Roy Rogers to get food. I took Berry Oakley to a radio interview. Gregg and Dickey didn’t talk to anybody, nor did Jaimoe. Duane and Berry are really the two spokespersons for the band at that point.
Q – You promoted the Allman Brothers at your college in 1970.
A – Yeah. I was part of the College Concert Board putting on the show and I was the one that convinced them to book this band?
Q – What college was that?
A – American University, which we actually have a “live” recording out from.
Q – How popular were The Allman Brothers at that time and do you remember what their asking fee was?
A – They were not popular at all. If I remember right, I think they got $2,000 or $2,200 to play two shows at the school which was sort of big money for them. They were at best a thousand dollar a night band right at that time for the most part. Maybe in some cities they got more because they were able to play around a bit. But, they were still a developing band. When they recorded “live” at the Fillmore East they were the second act on the bill.
Q – You’ve been a full-time manager since 1974?
A – Well, I’ve worked in the entertainment business as an artist manager since 1977. I started in 1974 as a road manager for a small band that had a record deal and put out a couple of records. In ’78 I moved into the office as director of management working for John Scher the concert promoter who owned The Capital Theater in Passaic, New Jersey. Since then I’ve been in artist management ever since. I first started working with The Allman Brothers as a manager in 1981 to about ’83 when they broke up. I continued doing a project with Dickey and Butch. Then got back involved with them in 1990.
Q – Did John Scher show you the ropes of being a personal manager?
A – Well, I think he was learning it too. I mean, we all sort of learned together we all sort of grew up in this industry. I mean, the industry was growing. We all sort of learned as we went along. There were quite a number of people I worked with when I worked for John that all went on to have major roles in this industry; production managers, promoter reps, promoters, music executives. We all sort of came up together and grew. A lot of us were college concert chairman where we got our first experience. John had the hutzpah to put the money together, buy a lease and promote acts. We were all sort of part of his team.
Q – And, he put on a festival at the New York State fair in the mid-1970s.
A – I was there. The band I worked for was the Stanley Brown group and they opened the festival. I was there for the Great American Music Fair or as those of us who worked it called it the Great American mud bath. It was a show that basically almost put John out of business.
Q – People were pulling down the fence. They didn’t want to pay to get in.
A – Well, there was that. Part of the problem that happened was the show was originally supposed to be Saturday of Labor Day weekend. And, I don’t know whether it was someone from the state or the fair forced him to move the show to Monday, of Labor Day weekend. It really changed the whole climate of when people could come. It certainly hurt ticket sales. Of course Saturday was beautiful weather. Monday was rainy.
Q – A lot of big names at that festival.
A – Yeah. Jefferson Starship, The Beach Boys, America, I think the Doobie Brothers. There was somebody else in there. I can’t remember who it is.
Q – Would Aerosmith or The Allman Brothers be more demanding in what they expected then say Renaissance in Lou Reed?
A – Oh, yes. I mean the size of the operation. You just have more people working for it. It’s not just demanding as the needs to successfully produce the event. By the time I worked for Aerosmith they were very successful. It was sort of their big come back, the “Permanent Vacation” tour and everything was going right.
Q – I thought Aerosmith was managed by Leber-Krebs.
A – Well, they were. Then they were managed by a guy named Tim Collins. He’s the one who brought them back in ’88, ’89. Actually earlier, ’86, ’87. He’s the one who put the band back together. He was managing Joe Perry. Joe had left the band. Brad had left the band. The band was basically in shambles, not successful. Tim convinced Joe to call Steve and try to put the band back together and do it the right way. Leber-Krebs were out as managers. Tim was one who really brought them all the way back. I was fortunate to be there for the “Permanent Vacation” tour. It went about 2 ½ years. Really couldn’t do anything wrong. They made a great record. I remember getting a cassette of the record when I was being recruited for the job and I listen to it and sent to my then girlfriend, later wife, “this is a number one record, the song Angel. I said we got to take this job. This thing is going to be a huge “hit”. It turns out I was right.
Q – Aerosmith made history when they played the New York State Fair Grandstand. They were paid $1 million.
A – I believe it.
Q – No one else had ever gotten that kind of money.
A – The Allman Brothers played it several times during the fair.
Q – The competition for bands today in venues has increased. I would guess that bookings would have been little easier to come by the early 70s.
A – Well, yeah. Look, expectations were not as high. We all put up with lousy dressing rooms. As long as the place was big enough, someone gave you enough money and the stage was big enough and the electricity worked, you played. If you didn’t get wet you played.
Q – One guy I interviewed a while back told me the job of manager is really a “glorified babysitter.” When I interviewed Benny Mardones he said, “You have to understand, a manager is one step below a child molester.”
A – (Laughs). Benny didn’t exactly have managers that were focused on the well-being of their client. He had some good managers.
Q – Benny had some problems.
A – Yeah. He wasn’t an easy guide to deal with. A manager is part businessman, part psychologist, part therapist, part babysitter. It’s all those things. You have to be ruthless with who your dealing with as your artists as well as who you’re dealing with on their behalf. My style has been that I embed myself with my client and I fight for them. I’ve become part of them. I’ve become an extant essential part of who they are and help them do their business the way they want to do it. Hopefully their vision in life and my vision in life matchup. In the Allman Brothers we try to treat people right. At the same time we try not to be taken advantage of. We wanted to work for everybody. We want to be successful. We don’t want to gouge our audience. We never had the top priced tickets. We don’t sell things most expensively. We don’t try to abuse our audience. Were really reverent of our audience in we’re thankful for them and respect them. That’s one reason why we played long shows, to give them their money’s worth.
Q – If you have to pick a personal manager that you admire or admired, who would you be modeling yourself after?
A – Well, those are two different questions, who I admire and who I’d model myself after. You got admire someone like Irving Azoff. He put together a tremendous organization. He is a ruthless manager who’s totally dedicated to his acts, in particular, the Eagles. Irving lives and breathes and kills for the Eagles. Elliott Roberts who manages Neil young and several other bands is another really good, thoughtful manager. There is a guy named Jeff Kramer who manages Bob Dylan and Paul Simon does a fabulous job. Very dedicated to his clients. Very aware of their aesthetics, but, at the same time makes good business deals for them. Going back, the problems with guys in the beginning, guys like Albert Grossman who had a big roster, he had Dylan, he had Janis Joplin, Joan Baez, at one point he had everybody, was he a good manager? I don’t know. You go back to Brian Epstein who managed the Beatles. He gave away their merchandising. He gave away their publishing. Nobody in the industry was knowledgeable and was less knowledgeable than some.
Q – In fairness to Brian Epstein he turned to his lawyer David Jacobs to negotiate the merchandising terms and David Jacobs thought it was beneath him to negotiate terms for such things as T-shirts. So, it was David Jacobs who was responsible for those merchandising deals.
A – Yeah. I don’t think everybody saw the vision of it. The deals I try to make our favored nation so I can’t make a worse deal than anybody else has made with this person. Secondly, you don’t make them in perpetuity. You make them short enough so you can renegotiate them. Same thing with music publishing. Brian (Epstein) allowed those guys in the Beatles to sign a deal where they got the writers royalties and the publisher got the publishing royalties. And, I don’t think they got much for that deal, meaning an advance or a fee payment. On that basis it was not a smart deal. Somehow Bob Dylan managed to hold on to all of his publishing.
Q – And recently sold it for $500 million.
A – And, I’m not even sure what he sold. I say that because he may have only sold the future. I’m not sure what he sold. I have a little bit of insight into what’s going on with that deal because I have to pay royalties for him. I’m under the impression that it’s not as global as it may look.
Q – Did you go on the road with Aerosmith?
A – I didn’t go on the road with Aerosmith. I ran their management office from Boston.
Q – Typically, do you travel with the acts you manage?
A – When I went from road management to artist management I went into the office and was basically organizing the tours, but sending a road manager out with a roadmap that I helped create to execute the plan. I was like the road manager in the office that anybody could talk to, meaning doing the radio promotions, coordinating the promoters on the marketing and the record company with the promotions and sale of the records, overseeing the overall business of the tour from the office. That’s what I was doing with Aerosmith. What happened with the Allman Brothers is I left Aerosmith and was sort of casting around, trying to put something together. They were very unhappy. They were being managed by a company called Gold Mountain. It was a short-term management agreement. They weren’t real happy with the management. They were very unhappy with the person they hired to tour manage them. Their attorney who actually got me the Aerosmith job called me up and said, they’re not real happy with their touring situation. They want me to manage them. I told them they need to call you because you’re the only other person on this planet who can deal with them. So, they called me up and said, “are really not happy with their tour manager. We hear you’ve been tour managing, which I had been doing a little bit with a Danish hard rock band touring throughout the world. They called me up. I called them and said, “Hey, I hear you’re trying to find me. I had just gotten back from Europe that day. I spoke to Butch on the phone and he said, “Let me get Dickey. He’s going to call you. He calls me and we talked for a little bit. He said, can you be out here tomorrow? I said, dude, I just got home. I’ve been away for like six weeks I got not even a two-year-old. We sort of talked I said, finish the tour you’re on. You’ve got five dates to do. I’ll come out and do the next leg. So, I came out to tour manage them and another year later their management contract expired and they told me they wanted me to manage them. We had a very unique relationship. They are not signed to me. I’m an employee of theirs. I actually work for the company they own. They like to feel like their self-managed.
Q – There is not a touring version of The Allman Brothers today is there?
A – No. Once Gregg had gotten sick enough where he wasn’t capable of touring anymore, they decided to sort of put it to rest, although we did do this one show in 2020, whenever Covid started. We did one show in Madison Square Garden’s with Jaimoe, Warren, Derek,Otiel, Mark, Derek’s brother Duane plays drums in place of Butch Trucks and a guy named Reese Wyman’s who was actually the original keyboard player in the Allman brothers before Gregg joined. He played keyboards and Chuck Leavell guested for about half a show. We sorted did the Madison Garden show we always wanted to do but was just not capable of doing once Gregg had gotten really sick.
Q – So, the remaining members of the Allman brothers have hired you to sort of look after their affairs?
A – Well, I was sort of already in place. I just sort of continued on. Jaimoe is the one who’s really got most control. Dickey has some control with Jaimoe in some of the different entities. We’re in the midst of trying to reorganize the business to try and bring all of the estates back into having a further control and how we do our business.
Q – Are there business meetings as they all sit down and tell you what they’d like?
A – Well, the representatives participate in some of the regular phone conferences. Jaimoe and Dickey are the only two of the original six that are still alive. They don’t participate directly. They have their representatives participate on their behalf.
Q – That would not be another manager, but an attorney?
A – Yeah. Usually an attorney. In Dickey’s case it’s a manager it’s sort of like having an executive board. I’ll tell the executive board what’s going on. I get their approval. I go make the deals and make it happen.
Q – I interviewed Butch Trucks. He didn’t seem like the type of person to take his own life.
A – Butch was under a lot of financial and health issues. I think just the stress of it all, I think he acted irrationally. I can’t really speak to his state of mind at that moment. He made some crazy decisions. To this day it’s mind-boggling that that’s what he did. He was so driven I just don’t think he could accept living life the way he saw the future for himself.
Q – Does his wife have a representative in how the Allman Brothers business is handled?
A – Well, I mean I don’t want to get into the whole intricacies of their business and how it evolves because it’s really private. What happens is that everybody receives the royalties that they are entitled to based on their participation meaning if they performed on a record, they participated in it, discuss back to Duane Allman and Berry Oakley, the merchandise sales had all been controlled up until now by the four surviving members who continued on, 40 years without Duane and Barry. Music publishing is controlled by the individuals who wrote the song. They all get their record royalties and they share in the right the use of the name. When we were touring those who performed on stage, who participated in it, Derek Warren Mark Otiel were all well compensated musicians but not partners or owners of the band, although they do have a say in the recordings that they performed on.
Q – There are recordings of The Allman Brothers out there the public has not heard as of yet, aren’t there?
A – Yeah. Well, there’s stuff were searching for. There is stuff that has come into our possession. There’s stuff we’ve had and we’re sort of continuously looking at it, reviewing it. One of the great things is the technology that has allowed us to fix recordings that may have too much surface noise on them. You can really take a tape that has background noise and you can actually remove that stuff without damaging the underlying recording. We try to look at the performances and we’re continuing to have this program of sharing what we think are valid “live” performances. There isn’t much in the way of studio outtakes. This is what we have. We try to pick things out and share them. I mean “Syria Mosque” is a good example. It was in the early 70s I traded bootleg tape and we were able to find something close to the source tape and clean it up and put it out the way it needed to be put out with the right kind of packaging and actually paying licenses to the songwriters who wrote the songs. There are a number of songs that are not written by band members and have the band members participate in the exploitation of the recording which up until now as a bootleg they don’t see anything on.
Q – Is there a video out there the world has not seen?
A – There is very little video of the original band. That being said where in development of an early years documentary with the guy named John McDermott who does all the Jimi Hendrix stuff. That stuff is great and he really has a great vision of how to do this stuff. We’re shooting some contemporary interviews. We’re looking through some old interviews and try to piece together that footage that’s out there. We found some footage that has not ever been shown. We are excited about sharing that with the fans so they can see it, we’ll put out some of that material.
Q – When does this “Syria mosque” CD come out?
A – It was supposed to come out at the end of October (2022). We had a manufacturing problems so I don’t believe it ships till December (2022), but, the digital version should be up already and available on all of the usual streaming and download sites.
Official website: allmanbrothersband.com
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